Gambling Forums

[LBoyd]

David Schwartz's idea of having rate choices is a good one--also, suggested on several blogs. Don't think people would have a problem with honest fees for extra amenities. The problem is the age-old perception that Vegas businesses, especially those on the Strip, are trying to pull a fast one. Some gamblers are motivated by bragging rights if they manage to beat top-name poker stars. Even if they just show skills beyond the rest of the players at a table they get a prideful feeling. Now the corporate decision-makers are making patrons look and feel like suckers and it's not too popular.

Sure, nobody likes to pay for somebody else's spa visits but I think it goes beyond that. You are aggravating people, many who lost to the house, by sending a padded bill. When they take the time to write a letter of complaint you exasperate the situation by acting like the King of England addressing a sad-serf. (See forum thread with letter complaining of resort fees.)Linda

[dewey089]

Thanks PetenDoris. That is a great idea, but I don't think the casinos would go for it because it is not in the fine print.

[PeteNDoris]

Dewey,

Here's David Schwartz's solution to the resort fee question-

http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2010/01/25/opinion/columnists/schwartz/iq_33722758.txt

Pete

[dewey089]

M casino dropped their resort fee. It was $25. People like you who liked to stay at M let them know they did not like it, so they ended the practice there.

There are no choices in resort fee. Everyone pays them except those who are comped or play enough to have them removed, and that removal is not guaranteed.

Casinos that do not have resort fees may have optional charges for amenities like wi-fi or the fitness rooms or parking. These are not resort fees because they are paid only by customers who choose and use the amenities.

Your response to these mandatory fees is right on the money.

[ACDUC]

A post on another forum led me to believe that the fees were sometimes optional. I seem to have read something about M Resort and Red Rock that inferred you had to decide whether or not to pay the resort fee based on whether or not you would use the facilities, like the spa, for example. Are you saying that all of these casinos, Red Rock, M Resort, Sun Coast , all Strip casinos and so on require the entire resort fee? This is a sincere question since the posters didn't come right out and say the full resort fee was optional, but said you had to decide whether or not it was worth the price based on whether or not you'd use the facilities. Could be that I misunderstood the posts.

I have to tell you that this is a gigantic rip off and I will make it a point to ask before I book. I agree that it does not meet the strict definition of bait and switch, although I'd have to look at their ads and fine print before I was sure. It really is an example of buyer beware. People are led to believe that they're going to get a big discount on a nice room since business is slow in Vegas, and ever slower in non-Strip casinos. The reality is that it's not such a good deal if you add on the huge resort fee. Definitely it is a deliberate attempt to make people think they're getting a better deal than they will get. Wonder if these people realize that customers who feel they were tricked are not likely to book a room on their next visit.

Good work making people aware of this situation.
I have not stayed at Red Rock but I have played there.

[dewey089]

ACDUC,

Keep in mind that there are no options around these fees; they are mandatory. You can't stay there and not pay them unless you are comped the room and the fee.
If you stay at Red Rock, for each night you stay there, you will be charged $27.94 above your room rate whether you feel you can use the resort amenities or not. If you only stay two nights, then you have those amenities for 2 nights. Here is the information on the shuttle as understood by Las Vegas Advisor:

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/referenceguide-transportationdetail.cfm?transportid=51&map=shuttlemap.cfm?showmap=RedRock.jpg

You won't be undergoing bait and switch. That would better describe what might happen if you did not know about the fee before you booked. You know the bait is poisoned with resort fee, so there won't be any switch.
I agree that this is worthy of the anger and frustration you express.
Whether you decide to book there or not, drop them a little e-mail note and let them know your feelings.

Oh, this Red Rock fee is the largest resort fee in Vegas.

[ACDUC]

A quick question Dewey. You list these things:

"Yes, Aces. In fact, with the 12% tax they add to the fee, it is $27.94 a day.

What you get for that is:

* Wired and wireless high-speed in-room internet
* Unlimited local and 800 calls
* Fitness center access
* Daily local newspaper
* Shoe shine service
* Airport shuttle service

whether you want those services or not. "

Do you know if you can just get the resort fee for one or two days. If I am flying into Vegas then the airport service for the two days, to get to and from the airport would justify the fee. What I don't like is being taken by a bait and switch scam. Several on vpfree keep referring to Vegas as a company town and I think that comes into play here. If the resort fee was the same and reasonable then I wouldn't mind so much. For example if it was $5 a day people might think its justified. That's because originally it was explained as a way to offset the cost of electricity and water. Most know there are problems with a shortage of water in the desert and wouldn't balk. Now we are hearing all kinds of things as reasons to increase the amount. This $27.94 is the highest one I have seen, although there are probably some charging more. If they are allowed to misrepresent the price of the room then you have to wonder how many other scams they have going. All of this is bad for Vegas at a time when business is slow. They may have a lot of people roaming around to see the fountains but not so many as in the past on the floor of the casino.

[dewey089]

Yes, Aces. In fact, with the 12% tax they add to the fee, it is $27.94 a day.

What you get for that is:

* Wired and wireless high-speed in-room internet
* Unlimited local and 800 calls
* Fitness center access
* Daily local newspaper
* Shoe shine service
* Airport shuttle service

whether you want those services or not.

Resort Fees are legal as long as they are disclosed. Of course, the disclosure here is often in the fine print, and if you buy rooms from discount brokers you may or may not notice where they remind you that resort fees are not included and even the notice may be vague and hidden in some fine print generality.
Across the country some resort fee hotels have settled class action suits when they did not disclose the fee upon booking.

Red rock really inspired me to begin to catch people's attention.

The first guy I ever read about who was surprised by the resort fee was a fellow who had arranged to take his wife to Red Rock for their 25th wedding anniversary. From what he wrote I took it that he really could not afford the trip, but he splurged to please her. It was their first trip to Vegas.
So they get there and find that the deal they booked through some discounter and thought was so good had not mentioned that they were going to pay $28 dollars a night extra to the casino as a resort fee.
This couple did not have money for many trips, and did not go to hotels often, so what do you think they did when they saw the interesting stuff on display in the room in one of those timed amentity racks?
You got it. I forgot what it cost him to "look" at the && package toys offered. More I think than the laugh was worth.
He put them back, but they ended up on his bill.
He laughed about it and blamed himself for not paying more attention to detail and for not taking seriously that this was Vegas where every time you turn around someone was trying to trick you out of your money.
Well, he had been tricked successfully.
Naturally, the added expense took the edge off the whole celebration, but he did not whine in his report of the adventure. He laughed the was we sometimes do when accidents happen to us.

I didn't laugh with him. I go to Vegas all the time on a frugal budget. I celebrated my 60th there for an entire frugal month in 2006 and invited everyone I know to join me and helped to book them so that in the end no person who came paid more than $25 a night total. I know it can be done.

I was very sad that he and his wife had wanted a special celebration and what they got was trickery and fine print.
************************************************
Red Rock is often mentioned. I suspect that they use the resort fee to separate their gamblers from people who would like to stay out there in the desert and be outdoors in that beautiful nearby park.
If you play enough to be comped, your resort fee may be waived like food and beverage. You still get the amenities, so it is a good deal for the well bankrolled visitor. In a sense the well bankrolled are subsidized by the frugal or the newbies or those who don't quite catch the fine print.
In my discussions of these fees it is often those folks who argue "Buyer Beware" and put the entire responsibility on the consumer. And some casino employees like them as well.

However, it is the kind of fine print trickery that makes me cringe.

[acesup]

Dewey,

Thanks for the information on resort fees. Last night a buddy told me he heard the Red Rock in Vegas charges a $24 @ day resort fee.
I'm wondering-

1) Is it true?

2) If so, what do you get for it?

3) How can they get away with it?

Aces

[LBoyd]

Hey, PeteNDoris, thanks for the link to resort fee information!

From the Link:

[dewey089]

[PeteNDoris]

Dewey,

Here's Liz Benston's article about resort fees in today's LV Sun

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jan/05/harrahs-uses-resort-fees-take-swing-competitors/

Good luck to all
Pete

[dewey089]

I reorganized all I could gather into a Vegas Resort Fee blog. Hope it is useful. I'll update within existing categories, so check back before you book.

http://vegasresortfees.blogspot.com/