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ACDUC
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Answerman
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 Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Among the problems at Echelon Place is that a couple of the hotel partners lost their financing. Boyd wasn't going it alone on this. There were to be four high-end designer hotels, and two of them found the capital was no longer there.
Boyd has a solid reputation in financial circles as well as in the casino industry, but for them, the capital crunch couldn't have come at a worse time. We're still looking years down the road before they can resume construction. |
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MaryP
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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The Liz Benston article says, "Standing between that northern section and the rest of the Strip is mostly vacant land bought by developers who tore down older hotels during the economic boom and aimed to build high-end resorts. This no man’s land contains fenced-off parcels with resorts stalled by the cratering of the economy — the exposed steel skeleton of the partially built Echelon and the empty and unfinished Fontainebleau Las Vegas. It’s an uninspiring view for tourists walking the Strip — a foreboding one, even".
I was there recently and have to agree that having stopped construction right on Las Vegas Boulevard is not a good sign for the strip. It makes the place seem like it's on its way downhill and that is very bad for business. In fact some construction sites that are deserted end up with homeless, vagrants, rusted out construction and even rats. It is unfortunate that they imploded so many casinos so they could develop new properties. I think it was better to have the old ones than what we see there now. I do understand that they did not realize there were tough times ahead but we all know there has to be some end in sight.
I thought the rest of her article was very interesting as well.
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:05 am Post subject: Circus Circus
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http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/apr/05/empty-lots-hurt-nearby-casinos/
I had no idea that revenues were down as far as her report indicates. She blames the stopped construction for most of Circus-Circus's problems, but I think it's also due to their infamously horrible buffet and kid-themed casino. Before he died Bill Bennett, one of the original developers of the casino, regretted the circus theme and stated that casinos and kids don't go together. I agree. |
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LBoyd
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'm quoting one of the articles posted here:
| Quote: | Question: Are there any reviews yet on the dinner buffet at the new Aria casino?
Answer: Reviews are good, the strengths being cold seafood (crab legs, oysters, shrimp and sushi), exotic salads (great potato salad) and carved meats (New York strip, prime rib, lamb and turkey). Dinner is $27.95, and this one's still undiscovered, so lines are still light. |
This was actually funny! The economy in Vegas and elsewhere are in the tank and we're being told of a hot buffet deal for $27.95 along with the fact that the lines are short because it's "still undiscovered". Think Columbus will bypass this one in favor of "discovered" deals for the same price or less. Also, parenthetically listing potato salad after "exotic salads" was pretty strange. For a few more dollars you could just go to Wynn's buffet and that menu is much more appealing than the one I see here. As I said in another post, I visited Aria and there were no good video poker plays and the environment resembled a den--not good. Linda |
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PeteNDoris
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LBoyd
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Vegas is hurting for all the reasons cited in the article you linked--some more than others.
Most telling to me is :
| Quote: | | Part of it, however, could be the sense some have that they’re trapped here — by being underwater in their mortgages (more than 80 percent of valley households) or unable to find an attractive job elsewhere (U.S. unemployment rate: 9.7 percent). |
Even in Lake Las Vegas you have both the casino and the Ritz Carlton going under. You may think you found an unbelievably wonderful price on a home, but buyer beware. You must carefully check and consider the homeowners' dues, especially in conjunction with what you'll receive. Fewer services and amenities? They're going to have to lower the monthly association fees to keep people there. Definitely a domino effect that can get out of control if the monthly fees remain so high.
Beyond all other reasons has to be the quote above, referring to so many owing more than the property is worth. For those who think everybody can just walk cheerfully away, guess again. Your credit can be destroyed and wages can be garnished to pay back loans. People disenchanted with Vegas have some good reasons to be upset. I think it has more to do with the economy in general than anything else. Linda |
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PeteNDoris
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MaryP
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not at all surprised by the figures in this article posted by Pete and Doris. Every aspect of Vegas trip expenses is down and I expect to see more of the same in 2010. I make fewer trips to Vegas myself and spend less when I go there. I think most people who are interested in gambling will remain closer to home. I have noticed that I don't do any better playing in Vegas than I do in local casinos. I like the shows but that is not my main reason for going to Vegas.
I have seen a seedier crowd in high end strip casinos on my last few visits. Some of the more upscale restaurants were closed during the week as were the bars in the Encore and Wynn during the weekdays. I hope the casinos are able to ride out the storm and not have to end up like the Ritz and Casino Montelago. Seeing a lot of construction projects stop work short of completion gave me a bad feeling. |
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PeteNDoris
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LBoyd
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the latest on Vegas's monorail Pete and Doris.
http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/22887744/detail.html
From the article:
| Quote: | | Ambac Assurance Corp insured $451 million of tax-exempt bonds used to finance Las Vegas Monorail's purchase of the rail line from MGM Grand-Bally's Monorail LLC in 2000, according to the filing with the federal bankruptcy court in Las Vegas. |
I did not realize that Las Vegas had purchased the monorail from MGM until I read this. Good deal for MGM but bad indeed for Vegas. What were they thinking? Even in 2000 people realized it was a disaster for a number of reasons. I spend lots of time in Vegas and have never used the monorail. Even if Las Vegas Blv'd had throngs of people I doubt that many would use it. Let's see, cabs, the Deuce, shuttles, cars, limos and, my personal favorite, your feet--all viable alternatives. Now we have both the Ace and the Deuce.That brings me back to the issue of MGM's uncanny good fortune to have unloaded their monorail white elephant on to the city of Vegas. Linda |
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PeteNDoris
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LBoyd
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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The link you posted is exactly what I found and wrote about two Las Vegas visits ago.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/13/nation/la-na-lake-las-vegas14-2010mar14
I was a bigger fan of the Ritz Carlton than any of the Strip's hotels/resorts. They never had spotty customer service at the Ritz, top quality staff, grounds, rooms (38-second bed making, bragged about by Harrah's Loveman, spells tacky with a capital "T") and everything else. Even their business center was kept meticulously clean, always a quiet area and the computers were encased in lovely wood.
The little village setting was so relaxing and I enjoyed the restaurants near the man-made lake. Even the casino was quiet and charming; I'll definitely miss this place. The shop-owner (in the linked article) was correct when she said her pricey shop is in the wrong place. It was the perfect spot 20 years ago but the recession hit Vegas and surrounding areas very hard. I do have to respect Mayor Oscar Goodman for letting the pols know they're not getting any red carpet treatment from him after damaging a messed up Vegas economy even more with stupid remarks. Linda |
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PeteNDoris
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LBoyd
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I think you're correct about HET (Harrah's Entertainment), but ultimately the fault lies with the players. If people have no understanding of BJ and are, therefore, willing to plunk down money on a 6/5 BJ game, casino rip-offs are their fault. People need to be educated about odds before they go to a casino and avoid unfair choices. Case in point is the vanishing "guaranteed play" choice. It was short-lived for video poker after all the blue-balloon celebrations when it was first introduced. Vegas is the world-leader in gaming and that includes innovations. However, the slogan "Whatever happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas", definitely applies to losing options as well as winners. GP never saw the light of day outside of Nevada and passed away quietly there.
My point? If people let Harrah's know they're on to the fact that they won't get a fair shake on HET properties, then you'll eventually see a fair exchange of dollars for entertainment. Either that or rats residing on vacant properties. Really, nobody expects a free lunch--just your money's worth. Linda |
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ACDUC
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I find the letters responding to the article about Harrah's very telling.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/mar/05/harrahs-executives-give-rare-glimpse-how-company-d/
Harrah's basically got loans discounted so they could stay in business and in 2015 when more come due they'll receive further discounts. Players applaud Loveman's saying here's your budget now deal with it. People are sure trusting. I remember reading the financials when all the big shots sold their Harrah's stock for full price. That includes the fine Mr Loveman and all the other top brass. This was before the stock value plummeted due to a combination of events, many foreseeable. Those lending money to Harrah's were shortchanges; but, wait, they were bailed out by my Uncle Sam. So who was left without the musical chair? That would be the average Joe investor and the dim-witted player. The investor without insider information got pennies on the dollar and the player is throwing their money away on things like 6/5 blackjack. Maybe the seven star gets to move to the front on the line or a special suite with sheets barely laundered and a bed made in 38 seconds. Very surprised that people would defend a monopoly that mistreats its employees, knowingly short-changes lenders and the decision-makers walk away scot free. Somebody should look into when the big guys sold their shares and maybe retrieve some of that money to repay innocent shareholders and lenders. I used to play heavily a Harrah's properties but won't contribute to their operation any longer. Oh, yeah, about the Laughlin property's secret, referenced in the article. The buffet head simply offered cheaper food and kept the price the same. Now the cat's out of the bag. |
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PeteNDoris
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LBoyd
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, Dewey,
I'm in full agreement with your observations. The "hip, cool" younger crowd do not care about ER's for table or video games--they're in town to party. Sort of a throwback to the depression era. (That was way before my time, but we still hear stories of the wild parties and bootlegger profits.) Somebody on this forum pointed out that many aspects of "old Vegas" are coming back. Schmaltzy trinkets as come ons (used player cards, plastic mugs, worthless free-spins, 99 cent shrimp cocktails, weak frozen margaritas in a plastic cup, etc..) Not bad at all.
What is bad for Vegas, though, is the desperate appearance of luxury-type casinos hard up for a few dollars. Like Wynn charging players for drinks, entry fee to see the Ferraris (antique cars at Riverside in Laughlin ask for an optional donation and there's far more to see), poorer video and table game choices and eliminating some costly buffet items. As the old commercial says, "never let them see you sweat"; this is especially true in the gaming industry. Linda |
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dewey089
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Fewer free drinks. Hmmmmm. I had not noticed that.
Perhaps it is another case of what is bad news for the hip and wealthy, is good news for the frugal and moderates. I think we do better in recession because a fixed income is most threatened by inflation:
* Vegas trips offer cheaper prices for better properties and many properties dig deep in their files and make free offers to folks who have not gambled there in years.
* While the upscale may pay more to party with the most unusual drink menus, we can still buy a good beer plenty of places for very little money. I'll let you know after April, but I suspect I'll still get more than I can drink anywhere I play poker. Caesar's stopped serving good alcohol two years ago. I stopped playing poker there. Most other places I think can get the things I want: Myer's rum, cognac courvoisier, rusty nail, amaretto and coffee. I'll let you know.
But then I don't need to get smashed to have a good time, so generally if the waitress takes twice the time to come back, it won't affect how much I drink. So moderates don't lose unless we miss some of the wild drunk money at the poker table. My bet is the drunks will just buy one at the bar on a bathroom break.
* The stimulus pumped enough money into Vegas transportation to make it, over the next few years, into an entirely refurbished system. I lost one of my favorite frugal routes, but I'm betting I gained more than I lost. When I can ride anything anywhere for $7.50 for three days, I think I can find my way. Just eliminating the congestion on the Deuce is a great thing for me. Great for Vegas too as it gets folks on the machines quicker and longer. Without a recession, no bus revamp.
* Last I heard I can still play 9/6 JOB and get comped one of the best microbrews, black chip porter, at the Boar's Head in Main Street Station. And the EV is above full pay since every quad gets a bit more.
*I can still get drinkable microbrew for $1.50 at Ellis Island. If I remember red wine was cheap there too. Casino Royale still offers drink promos. I see the deals but take little notice because sitting at a poker table for 10 hours a day gets me all I want to drink.
The comparison one commenter in the Sun article made between Vegas and an Indian casino is ranting hyperbole. No comparison at all. At Turning Stone I bring my Myer's rum in a hip flask and pour it over my free coke and again over the remaining ice. That's the only way to have a drink there. If you want beer, forget it, because a six pack under the table is too visible and won't be allowed.
Folks with little or no investment on a fixed income actually did well during this recession because our great enemy is inflation. Prices here in Florida for great clothes at Beall's were low as ever and I stocked up for the next year.
So there are still windows of great bargains even on alcohol, but perhaps not at the upscale party places. Well, as old Gherig used to say, "Somebody's got to pay the light bill" If the affluent don't get charged a bit more to be cool, how will all those CEO bonus dollars trickle down to we frugal folks? |
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Gunner
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maddog22
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| The airport mentioned in the article is about 30 minutes from my home - this story made the local news a few weeks ago. It's just amazing to me how so many entertainers and athletes can get themselves into debt and tax issues - for the most part, I think it's a matter of trusting the wrong people with your finances. |
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PeteNDoris
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MaryP
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Pete and Doris wrote "Looks like Station may be in bigger trouble than they thought. The Greenspuns are not people to screw around with in Vegas. "
http://www.lvrj.com/business/greenspun-affiliate-sues-station-casinos-84765547.html
I agree that the Greenspuns are big cheeses in Vegas, but the Fertitta brothers aren't exactly small frys either. This sounds very ugly at the onset and is heading for even nastier grounds. I think the Fertitta's own around 7% of the Palms as well. That means their friends with some other Vegas powerhouses--that's unless they decide to sue each other. Bad business makes for lots of litigation. MGM Mirage and their Bernai partners were going at it for a time, but seem to have worked things out. That was due to differences over CityCenter, I think. This was an interesting article. |
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dewey089
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Answerman wrote: | Mmmmm ... kalua pork. My wife and I got married on Kauai. Asked for a place to sample local cuisine, and were directed to a little dive called the Aloha Diner. The kalua pork was out of this world.
But yeah, gambling in Hawaii would hurt Boyd's downtown properties badly. Main Street, yes, but especially California. |
We went to Kauai with my Edward Jones son who works in LaGrange outside of Chicago when Edward Jones had a perk conference. We stayed at the Grand Hyatt Regency wich was fabulous. Not my frugal usual for sure. And one night they brought great kalua pork for one of the meals in common. It was wonderful, but I don't think it was better than MSS.
My recipe at MSS is collard Greens from one section mixed with the kalua pork from the back and topped with Chinese noodles for he Asian section. Yum. I'll have some the end of April. |
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PeteNDoris
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Answerman
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Mmmmm ... kalua pork. My wife and I got married on Kauai. Asked for a place to sample local cuisine, and were directed to a little dive called the Aloha Diner. The kalua pork was out of this world.
But yeah, gambling in Hawaii would hurt Boyd's downtown properties badly. Main Street, yes, but especially California. |
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Vegas Vic
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| dewey089 wrote: | That would hit Main Street Station pretty hard.
Hope it won't affect the offering at the buffet of kalua pork |
Perhaps the California even more. |
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dewey089
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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That would hit Main Street Station pretty hard.
Hope it won't affect the offering at the buffet of kalua pork |
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Vegas Vic
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LBoyd
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the links, Pete and Doris.
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http://www.lvrj.com/news/gaming-revenues-fall-by-biggest-percentage-ever-84117117.html
I was at CityCenter a few weeks ago and it's not surprising that slots/video poker aren't bringing in revenues--even for the grand opening. I really don't understand why a casino would be lit like a cavern when they are supposed to represent a celebratory environment. As I've said many times before, management teams need to bring in gamblers to consult on how to attract the crowds. Apparently there are baccarat players galore in Vegas (not sure as to why), but both slots and VP are in decline. I read on another forum that slot players are losing their bankrolls too fast of late. As for VP the poor pay schedules along with deceptive denominations (10-play nickel machines cost the same per hand as a fifty-cent machine) are causing a quick loss of money. If you lose fast it's not fun!
Really feel bad for the staff but when decision-makers aren't sure whether or not they want tourists or gamblers costly mistakes are made. Bad plays for both table games and machines will chase away those going to play, while advertising deceptions (unmentioned resort fees) will discourage the tourists from returning. Our politicians have diminished the convention visitors with poorly chosen words.
Really do hope 2010 is a better year for Vegas.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/feb/10/closing-hotel-lake-las-vegas-raises-concerns-rippl/
Really loved the Ritz Carlton and so very sorry to see it go. I'll still go to Lake Las Vegas, though, for some shopping. I find the area to be very pleasant and all shop owners go out of their way to be helpful. Linda |
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PeteNDoris
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